Yours is a typical late war WA 140 code Model 1922. There were substantial numbers of these produced and your example appears to be in very good condition with considerable original finish remaining. These used to be at the low end of German used WW II pistols but that is pretty much over and I have noted substantial price increases over the past few years. I am always on the lookout for nice numbers matching example like yours. At one time these were just about the most popular pistol with the European police departments and were still in service in some locations up into the 1980s. BTW: These are very good shooters if you care to give it a try. FN 1922 pistols with WaA140 inspectors marks were made between mid-1941 and September 1944 (when the FN plant was liberated by the Allies).
They were very popular with the Wehrmacht and many were used by Luftwaffe aircrews – their drop holsters fetched prices around 200.00 when in good condition, and wold be a nice addition to your pistol. My guess is that yours was made in early 1943, before the Germans started the a-block suffix series. Does your pistol has the mag safety (remove the magazine and check if it fires)? Regards, Douglas. Thank you gentlemen for your replies! Unfortunately here in Europe in many countries one can only have de-activated guns (purely as decorative objects). Mine came from Germany and has the trigger mechanism blocked so I can't shoot the pistol.
Not even dry-shooting. It's sad that these antique weapons are demolished like this but unfortunately that's just how it is Because of this I can't say if it shoots with the magazine removed. So if I understand correct it's the WaA stamp which tells a specific time-era?
Or can, because of the serial number a more accurate dating be done? I have been checking for a holster already yes but so far I didn't really figure out which exact holster should go with this pistol? I actually think that many 7,65 mm pistols were carried in similar holsters, right? Thanks for your time. Best regards, Marcel.
Fn Browning 1900 Value
Ok I know the picture quality is bad but have not purchased this yet and just took pics with my phone. This little model 1910 was brought home from Europe in the 50s. It has no serial numbers. I read once of a contract for Germany for approx 3k of these for secret police but now cannot find reference and it was so long ago I might have wrong country. If anyone knows the story of no serial number FN model 1910 I would greatly appreciate it.
He had some other military left to him and I bought all but this one. So if anyone know a value I would also appreciate that. Thank you for your help. Ok I know the picture quality is bad but have not purchased this yet and just took pics with my phone. This little model 1910 was brought home from Europe in the 50s.
It has no serial numbers. I read once of a contract for Germany for approx 3k of these for secret police but now cannot find reference and it was so long ago I might have wrong country. If anyone knows the story of no serial number FN model 1910 I would greatly appreciate it. He had some other military left to him and I bought all but this one. So if anyone know a value I would also appreciate that. Thank you for your helpNo idea of what they would be doing without S/Ns, but doubt for secret police.
Maybe for foreign intelligence who might feel the need for a sterile gun, though better to have ordinary civilian guns from the time between the wars - which would be extremely easy to acquire by a government of one of its agencies. Close up pictures would be a great help to us. My first thought was that it was made right after the Germans abandon the FN factory near the end of the war. That would have also been before the Liege proof house was back up and running. However, I don't know that there were any Model 1910 pistol parts made during the war other than what was interchangeable with the Model 1922. Perhaps an early post-war 'lunch box special'? I seriously doubt that FN would manufacture and sell pistols with no serial numbers.
Any 'sterilization' would have been done after purchase and would have required refinishing if it was for an organization. If it was done by a criminal there would be evidence of that because criminals wouldn't go to the trouble to finish it.
The grip logo looks pre-1950. You might check the BATF laws about owning a pistol with no serial number before you purchase it. Maybe it's legal & maybe it's not.
Regards Dan in Texas. I have also thought on the legal side of this. Even if I did purchase thos pistol I would be required to give it a serial number I believe. But i I for sure will just bring it home. Already spoke to owner and he said no problem.
TonyIf the gun was made before 1968, doesn't have to have an S/N as I understand it. That is IF the maker didn't put one on. IF the maker put one on and somebody removed it, then highly unlawful to transfer or possess, but there are ways to 'paper' that. Not going to go into that, but altered or removed S/Ns are a no-no, but wasn't actually required until 1968 for 'ordinary' guns. I do NOT think you will have to apply an S/N, but you really need to contact ATFE (NOT the local field office; my experience with them is 'I know nozzing'). Get with Tech Branch at HQ and get it in writing. I see no rounding of sharp edges, washing out of slide stamps, diminishing inspections stamps on the trigger guard.
I don't think we are looking at a sanitized gun. It looks like the usual final machining of a typical FN pistol. No serial numbers, inside or out. No caliber marks.
No firing proofs. It's pre-68, and no apparent scrubbed serial, so it is likely entirely legal to sell, but I am not a lawyer! This is an unfinished gun. My best guess? A salesman sample. If so, it could be worth more than the average M1910 to an avid FN collector.
Anthony Vanderlinden is a member of this forum. You can look him up in the member list. I'd give him a PM. It's right up his alley. Could this be a 'lunch box special'? An employee wanted a gun and figured he could smuggle out the individual parts and 'make' his own gun at home. No one would miss one part missing from a big box of newly manufactured parts.
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Getting the receiver, barrel and other parts BEFORE a number would have been stamped on it would ensure that the theft would not be discovered by any of the company inventory checks. Lunch box specials are not common but they do occur. I have a S&W M1917 without a number stamped on its butt which I assume was built part by part as some parts are not finished while other ones are. I doubt it is a factory rebuild as it would not have left the factory in that condition. 922 (k), “It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.” So a firearm without a serial number is legal IF it never had a serial number. Get a gunsmith to sign a letter saying that there are no signs of a serial number ever having been removed and that the pistol was manufactured without any identifying numbers.
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Please be sure to state in the letter the date it was imported as closely as you can find out since if it was before 1968 it's in the clear. From what I have read - I've made some AK-47s - it is legal to put your own individual serial number on a firearm which has none. I think it'd be a very good idea to look up the FN 1910 serial no ranges and make up one that's different, like (your initials) 1001. Here's the 2002 requirements for serial nos.Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame or receiver; The serial number cannot duplicate the serial number appearing on any other firearm the importer previously imported; and For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of.003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. Big Commander, Firearms are occasionally encountered without serial numbers often older.22's ans shotguns. By 1968 the Government meddlers decided everything should have a S/N so it can be more easily tracked, ownership wise. If a firearm was made before the law it is accepted without a number, some firearms without numbers were brought home as war souvenirs a practice that has been stopped recently.
The pistol in question if produced without a number and being made ptrior to the 1968 law would be lawful to own. I understand and was somewhat blinded by the Belgian law from 1922. From that year on our citizens needed a permit to possess handguns and military rifles (i.e. Rifles that shot a military caliber, from whatever country in the world!). Our government was afraid of the amount of firearms recuperated/liberated by civilians after WWI. As an amusing note (and due to my age). When a grandfather of one of our teenage friends had passed away we always asked: 'Did he have a handgun in his night table?'
Often it was the case and sometimes a handgun and money changed hands. I sure hope you do not decide to add your serial number. Nothing illegal about owning a gun which never had a serial number! You just mark it down in your book as 'NSN' for no serial number. Guns like the liberator are a prime example. By adding your own serial number will just destroy the value. It does appear to be a gun smuggled out of the plant.
Or it could be a gun made up of armorer parts which were nu-numbered. The gun has the pre-war trigger. The slide legend used from 1930 to 1950 as well as pre-war grips.
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It could have been in the factory at time of capture by the Germans and was captured and pressed into service. Escaping numbering or just smuggled out of the factory. Either-way it serves the definition of a curio and is therefore legal to own as is. Now without the liege proofs I would not recommend to shoot it. The fact that it has what appears to be a factory blued finish without serial numbers and proof marks makes me think it isn't a lunch box special.
I've seen a few of those and there are usually some or all parts not fully finished. It could possibly be a training aid used to teach assembly & disassembly but those were usually serial numbered and marked as a training aid.
It is intriguing but I doubt that we will really know why it is this way. If I were going to buy it I would offer $300.00 and that only because of it's uniqueness. I still think it was made right at the end of the war & just after the Germans left the factory. Regards Dan in Texas.
I sure hope you do not decide to add your serial number. Nothing illegal about owning a gun which never had a serial number! You just mark it down in your book as 'NSN' for no serial number.
Guns like the liberator are a prime example. By adding your own serial number will just destroy the value. It does appear to be a gun smuggled out of the plant. Or it could be a gun made up of armorer parts which were nu-numbered.
The gun has the pre-war trigger. The slide legend used from 1930 to 1950 as well as pre-war grips. It could have been in the factory at time of capture by the Germans and was captured and pressed into service. Escaping numbering or just smuggled out of the factory.
Either-way it serves the definition of a curio and is therefore legal to own as is. Now without the liege proofs I would not recommend to shoot it.Agreed. No need to add a serial.
I've entered many guns as NSN.
Purchased a 1910 Browning (FN).380 today at auction. Very nice and clean and little used. I did purchase with my C&R and brought it home, but I am trying to date it, at least generally.
I know they were made over a pretty long period of time, I believe up until 1954. Mine has Browning labeled grips, not FN. Does have made in Belgium on the left side of the slide, below 'Browning Arms Co. St Louis MO and Montreal, PQ'. The S/N is 614054.
I've been numerous places on the internet, but can't come up with any time frames for S/N groupings. It does have a fair number of markings stamped on the frame and barrel.
Any help appreciated. They were sold in the US as Brownings from 1955 to 1968 and were sometimes referred to as model 1910/55s. Importation ended with the GCA of 1968 along with several other handguns.
I'm sure yours came from this time span with the Browning grips and Slide logo. By looking at many on the auction sites over the last few years I have gotten some general idea of serial numbers. I have one close to yours at 6135XX and I believe this puts both at fairly close to the end of sales in the US in 1968. They are on the C&R list regardless of actual mfg date as are numerous discontinued guns. You will find that the trigger is made of plastic on late guns but I don't know when this change occured. It makes no difference with their design. Nice ones are getting pretty pricey on the auction sites.
That's interesting - about the plastic trigger. I did not know that. My gun, s/n 636xxx, no doubt has one. There is not much good to be said about the sights, but the gun itself is a nifty one. I can't say I have shot mine much. I do recall it didn't like one brand of European.380 ammo, I believe it was GECO, but that was a long time ago. It would misfire horribly with it, and did fine with U.S.-made stuff. Download microsoft date and time picker control 6.0 sp6.
At the ranges the gun might be used (10-yards or less) I suppose the sights didn't concern me. I was more interested in finding a spare mag, which at that time was not easy. In its day, I preferred it to the PPK but seemed to be alone in that. I think it is about time to drag it out and warm it up again - and hope nothing breaks! BROWNING DATES OF MANUFACTURE 1824 TO PRESENT, First Edition by George Madis. Dates of manufacture 1955 Pistol.
1968 603891-619474. Simson: Does that book you quote also have FN manufacture dates pre-war? I have this FN 1910, #8056, which I know to be first year of production because it has the slide/frame overhang in front that characterizes these guns, but 1910 wasn't actually the first year for the 1910, the most common years being bandied about being 1912 or 1913.
Does the book have anything on that? Thanks for checking. I have two of the old FN 1910s in.32 acp, haven't seen them for a while as they are buried in the safe somewhere. As I recall one is in the 130,000 serial # range and the other is around the 225,000 area. I have no way of knowing but I assumed they were from the 20s and 30s. I didn't know the 1955 was imported in.32 until I saw a couple on GB. They went pretty high.
The sights aren't much but my 1955 does shoot to point of aim with 95 gr FMJ at self defense distance of about 25 ft. Old JB surely designed the 1910 as a defense-carry piece and went for a smooth exterior. Taking them apart and seeing how the few parts interact has convinced me that the gun is a marvel of simplicity and the best design ever for a gun of it's type. FN claimed it was safe to carry cocked in a pocket and I agree. They are easily disassembled and the magazine safety can be easily removed if you so desire. In contrast to many other designs the 1910 was basically unchanged from 1910 until 1968 and that says a lot.
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Good morning gentleman it's one of my my first posts here in this forum, so let me say hello to all of you. I'm collecting parabellums and rifles (german an austrian ordonance). A friend asked me if i have any connections to determine a production date of his fn. Reading you forum for years, i thought, maybe gunboards could help first information i have, the serial number is 5230xx second, i found an proofing, ELG with crown, with is according my documents, not a nitro proof. Dota 1 full game free download torrent. Can you gentleman help to determine the production date and solve the riddle about the blackpowderproof.
Best regards from austria, wolfganggo. Crown over ELG/. in oval is the definitive black powder proof for breech-loading guns, small bore guns and handguns, since July 1893 according to my reference. Lion over PV is nitro proof for rifled barrel & parabellum pistols, in use since 1924 per my references. Almost all (in my experience, all) Belgian arms will show the ELG/.
in oval proof (with or without crown, depending on date), with additional marks indicative of other proofing. This one is nitro proofed, as shown by the Lion over PV proof, and (if my refereces are correct) sometime after 1924.
Look on pg 91 of the FN book by Anthony Vanderlinden 'FN Browning Pistols: Side-Arms that Shaped World History'. There are three entries for the letter A and 2 of them are postwar. Besides that I have a FN 1900 that has the Lion/PV,.H and the 'Perron' tower proof. The only H listed in the book is Christophe Woit 1938-1968. According to the book the 'Perron' proof was used until 1924 so how could these two proofs be on the same gun when they come from two different time periods? The only logical conclusion I could come up with is that they reused the letters. Look on pg 91 of the FN book by Anthony Vanderlinden 'FN Browning Pistols: Side-Arms that Shaped World History'.
There are three entries for the letter A and 2 of them are postwar. Besides that I have a FN 1900 that has the Lion/PV,.H and the 'Perron' tower proof. The only H listed in the book is Christophe Woit 1938-1968. According to the book the 'Perron' proof was used until 1924 so how could these two proofs be on the same gun when they come from two different time periods? The only logical conclusion I could come up with is that they reused the letters.There is only one entry for letter R.
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